The Great Boost Discussion Thread - GOOD INFO INSIDE!!!

[OnyxCobra]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

would someone like to give me the rundown on a compressor map and how to relate it to an engine?

 

[95PGTTech]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

Honestly, my best explanation is to go out and buy Maximum Boost by Corky Bell. It's an entry level turbocharger book into street and racing. A bit outdated in some of the info, but it's technical enough to be correct but basic enough to have the average person be able to understand.

In a nutshell, a compressor map tells you at what airflow the compressor of the turbocharger is going to make most efficient power. Not to be confused with biggest boost, biggest horsepower, biggest torque, powerband, or spool. It really is just a measurement of how much air the compressor will flow.

How it relates to your engine in a nutshell is do you have enough air to drive it, and do you have enough cylinder head/cam/intake/exhaust to flow its output?

 

[Paul]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

would someone like to give me the rundown on a compressor map and how to relate it to an engine?

Go read "the Tubo Bible" on turbomustangs.com

It's under the knowledge base section, and is a good intro.

 

[Hellion94]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

would someone like to give me the rundown on a compressor map and how to relate it to an engine?

Go read "the Tubo Bible" on turbomustangs.com

It's under the knowledge base section, and is a good intro.

+1 Turbomustangs has a ton of great info.

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

at what point does gearing come into play?

what about compound boost?

 

[Paul]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

at what point does gearing come into play?

That's a pretty vague question, so I'll give you a pretty vague answer.

When you build a performance car.

what about compound boost?

What about it? It's simply one compressor feeding another. It makes the calculations a little different for compressor maps, but the underlying math is all the same.

Paul.

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

at what point does gearing come into play?

That's a pretty vague question, so I'll give you a pretty vague answer.

When you build a performance car.

what about compound boost?

What about it? It's simply one compressor feeding another. It makes the calculations a little different for compressor maps, but the underlying math is all the same.

Paul.

well, i was hoping for a generalized answer with the gear question... but not quite that bad... lol.

when building a performance car, when will a more agressive gear become a downfall? when will a more specifically built transmission (power glide, 4l85e, T400, T350.) become more of a requirement? will this change from a turbo set-up vs. a top mount?

as for the compound boost, that was about all i was curious about, would the "generalized information" thats been provided be roughly the same?... when a turbo is feeding a twin screw, will it put it into a whole nother ball park? (from what i understand from your answer, its "no." ??)

 

[CC'S95GT]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

How is using nitrous to spool the turbo better that using the nitrous to power the motor directly?
I saw it on Pass Time but I was like, huh?

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

How is using nitrous to spool the turbo better that using the nitrous to power the motor directly?
I saw it on Pass Time but I was like, huh?

from what ive read (one article) its the best of both worlds, but it comes with its risks...

it forcefully spools the turbo at a higher rate (like pedaling a bike down hill)
it cools the charge
it gives the same HP/TQ benifits of using it directly in the motor.

BUT...

it puts excess stress on the turbo components
it makes the turbo components much cooler than they are sometimes designed to be, then they immedately warm up after teh shot is complete.


thats what i read in Modified Mag at the book store one night.

 

[95PGTTech]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

It's cool from an engineering standpoint, but impractical. Cost, weight, overcomplication, tuning issues. A properly sized single or twin turbo setup is going to make as good or better power than any compound setup, that's why you don't see many. At high rpm, the blower just becomes a restriction.

Gearing...again...what is the car being used for? Most of the turbo Terminator guys use stock or close to stock gearing to load the turbo up really good because they are highway racers. Someone interested in drag racing would probably see more benefit out of the traditional high gear/tall slick combination.

Your transmission issue is use of car again, and personal preference. Most guys drive street cars and want to stay stick because it's more fun. Obviously a turbo setup would respond at the track better to a big stalled built auto as it will build boost on the line and between shifts.

Chris, we've been down this road before. For what you do with the car, you need to find yourself a stock 03 Cobra drivetrain and swap it in. Drive it. If that's not enough, do the normal clutch, whipple, intake/exhaust. For what you do with the car, this would be the least complicated, least expensive, and most realistic way of upgrading your vehicle. Don't start some massive project that is never going to end (see my thread...)

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

im not asking for my build, im asking for generalized information.

but thanks for the information.

(and i look at your thread once a day. lol!)

 

[95PGTTech]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

Mondays and Tuesdays are really the only days I have to go work on the car (but with nice weather coming up and not much work at work I need to start leaving early and putting mid week days in...).

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

lol, i noticed... i love how ya take about 100 pics for everything... really makes it educational for those of us who havent dry-iced, power drilled, and welded our mustangs. lol.

 

[95PGTTech]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

it makes me feel like I actually got something done.
I'm a completely different person at work with two-three lifts, air tools, doing it on the clock, etc.

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

and not taking step by step pix, i assume.

 

[95PGTTech]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

sometimes a few for my personal enjoyment.
jobs that are especially difficult or BS.

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

yea? what was teh most frustrating job youve done? did it consist of a compressor map? lol.

 

[95PGTTech]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

did a motor on a 05 f550 dump truck back in 2005. 881 miles on it. repair order said "oil leak". "customer heard noise, now runs rough."

went outside. saw big puddle under truck. looked up. number four rod windowed the block.

ford never did let me tear it down to determine what caused it. I guess they did back wherever we shipped it to. I walked back in and said it needed a motor, a new one arrived in a plastic crate oil pan to turbocharger a few days later. 1400lbs.

we had to order a special engine stand and a special engine crane for the dealership for the 6.0s. we did quite a few. that first one was interesting. we didn't know about doing bodylifts on that new bodystyle then so I did it by the book that first time. took the whole front clip off the truck.

and when I finally got it running the fuel line inlets on the front of the cylinder head were leaking. ford assembled this motor and shipped it with incorrectly sized copper crush washers. as soon as I replaced them with the ones that were on the truck before they were fine.

3 days. what fun.

physically that was the most difficult. mentally, as a base engine/driveability and electrical specialist, I've had a couple dozen cars that made me go insane trying to find stuff. nothing I didn't figure out eventually though, you just stick with it. at my new job, seeing products other than only fords, it's a lot tougher. tons of stuff I haven't seen before.

 

[MustangChris]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

oh my . . .... . . .. .that sounds dreadful.

makes me glad i dont do this for money. lol.

 

[95PGTTech]

Re: In Response to Javi's Post....

the only way to make money these days as a tech is to know what is, and what is not a "gravy" job. the jobs that you can accomplish reasonably in less than the given quoted time standard. A brake job, for example, is one of the very very few "gravy" jobs left remaining (they constantly cut time standards as they figure out we have new tricks).

or, do as I did. understand you are slow, and specialize. do something that not everyone can. that way, when you say you need extra time on a job, they don't really have a choice. who else are they going to give it to? hopefully, with enough time, you even start coming close to the time standards within your specialty. at ford I was driveability/base engine/diesel. I'm handy with electrical and manual trans, but there was a trans guy and an electrical guy. in the aftermarket here, I'm driveability/base engine. when it's got a check engine light, or when it gets towed in and don't run, it's my problem. the crap everyone else runs for the hills from.

some jobs I make time, some jobs I lose time. in the end, I end up with about 60 hours a week being in the building 40 hours, and even when it's completely dead I still have work because, as mentioned, I'm the only one willing to touch stuff like this.

my suggestion to anyone is keep working on cars as a hobby, for fun. when you get into this professionally, it for the most part ruins your fun with cars. I really have to WILL myself to go to my garage on my day off. It doesn't help that it's not at my house here and I can't just walk out in my slippers. but the last thing any tech wants to do on his day off is work on a car. especially if it's not a side job and I'm not making cash. this is a miserable, thankless, terrible benefits, no respect industry that I've been stuck in since I was 12.